Marriage Sucks? Sleep Apart
Today I was in Shiodome and stumbled on the National Center (National as in National-Panasonic). National makes all kinds of household items from refrigerators and microwaves to Japanese style bathrooms, kitchens, and living rooms. In Shiodome they have a large showroom where you can see all their different interior offerings.

One floor had fairly fancy high class rooms showing off different interior designs. Some of them were very cool but the one that really stuck out was this one...


You might be able to see a few more pictures here.

The description for the room was as follows

夫婦がほどよい距離感を楽しめる家

Translated that basically means "Enjoy a house with a moderately separated couple feeling". That's actually kind of hard to translate directly but if you look at the diagram above hopefully you can see that there are separate bedrooms on each side of the bathroom. In the bottom one you can see that it has it's own entertainment center so in other words you can live on opposite sides of the house and have your own life, no need to be bothered by your spouse.

I gotta say, my stupid American point of view finds that really sad and yet the kind of couple that would consider that kind of arrangement in Japan is not uncommon at all. There is more stigma to divorce here in Japan than in America so rather than get a divorce and try to find someone new to share your life with many Japanese just 我慢 (endure it) and do the best they can short of actually getting a divorce.

I actually stayed with one a few years ago. I was visiting a friend of a friend and her parents lived in a house where the father and mother each had separate rooms about 25x20 feet large. (This was not in Tokyo). The rooms being that big, each basically had a bed and a living room to themselves. They shared the kitchen and dinning room. I have no idea how much they actually interacted with each other.

I can't personally imagine being in that arrangement. My sensibilities say fix the relationship or get out. If we no longer want to be each other's best friend then separate. But, maybe this arrangement works for others...
Comments:

chance [ e ]

It's an interesting idea for a difficult situation and one that could lead to a reconciliation. A lot of couples who break up end up seeing each other again because they realise what they are missing. Living together but apart at the same time means if this happens it is easy enough to get back together.

From all I have heard about the difficulties (and cost) of finding somewhere to live in Japan I am sure to many this is a less painful solution than moving out. Not sure I could do it though, but in a healthy relationship at least you wouldn't have to decide who sleeps on the wet patch, you just go in the other bedroom

posted by uk_designer_mattJune 13, 2005 at 0:33

the problem as i see it... [ e ]

is you either get the uber plasma TV or you get the computer (digital workstation)

so you'd have to like play musical bedrooms to share electronic resources.

posted by alien8June 13, 2005 at 2:44

So common [ e ]

I actually don't know any married couples in Japan who *do* sleep together, even young, healthy couples.  But the concept of a couple is so completely different from western-style couplings that I doubt many westerners would call a Japanese couple "healthy" at all.  Many couples even in the throes of "puppy love" often sleep apart.

I agree ... it's very sad.

posted by JustinJune 13, 2005 at 17:35

[ e ]

I don't know how common it is but I know both kinds of couples.  Ones that sleep together and ones that don't including both young and old.  I knew one young guy that only saw his WIFE once every 2 weeks! Of course he's the exception. I have another Japanese friend who is the exception on the opposite side in that he brings is wife to parties and other socials as often as he can even if they are work related. That's practically unheard of though I haven't seen any of his co-workers teasing him about it so that's good.

My Japanese teacher said her parents basically are not involved with which other though they still live in the same house. An older friend of mine was completely uninvolved with her husband. She finally took the jump and got a divorce which for someone her age (50s?) had to be pretty scary since supporting yourself as a women in Japan is pretty hard. Maybe her husband gave her a good chunk of change.  I believe the laws about that are not nearly as progressive as they are in the states which are two of the reasons wifes don't ask for a divorce as much as they might.

On the otherside I have friends who's parents are still doing well and still sleep together or at least in side by side futons

posted by greggmanJune 14, 2005 at 5:47

Marriage is a complex matter [ e ]

I think it will make matter more complicated...

Not really a good idea, I reckon. Although the design that follow the need seems to be necessary, not in this matter, I guess.

This reminded me the old episode of GTO (Great Teacher Onizuka), where finally Onizuka just broke the wall that separates the bedroom of the parents. So there is still chance to get together again.

posted by JimmyJune 16, 2005 at 17:38

I think it's actually kind of cool... [ e ]

Isn't it just a way for both husband and wife getting their own personal space?  Just because they are married, they are still 2 different individuals.  Plus, they don't necessarily have to sleep apart just because they have beds in both rooms...  I look at the design as the couple having 2 bedrooms to choose from everyday...  A bit different, but it doesn't have to indicate a broken marriage, does it??

posted by thatgirlJune 23, 2005 at 22:01

It rules. [ e ]

I think Denis Leary said it best..'The key to a long marriage is to stay the hell away from each other. Sleep in different rooms, you come out, eat, talk, fuck and then go back in your room!.. end of story'
Damn straight. For my marriage it works a treat. Not spending so much time together really has its merits, we appreciate each other so much more, and if we have a tiff then no one has to sleep on the couch. Another reason for us doing it is that we both work very different hours, so we both always get a good nights sleep. Plus I can have a bat whenever I like and fart my guts out to my hearts content without having to cop any flak from the missus.
Who wants to wake up to the same un made up head every morning anyway? I lived with my ex for 5 years and slept in the same bed, in the end I was waking up looking at her thinking..'jeeesus.. YOU again?!' Who needs it. thatgirl is right.. keep your individuality and as much of your independance as possible. Marriage is more fun when you can still have time to yourself.

posted by shizzleJune 23, 2005 at 22:56

[ e ]

Obviously it works for some people but as for me personally, if I didn't want to sleep next to my wife and she didn't want to sleep next to me then at least for me that would mean it was time for a divorce, off to find someone that I did want to sleep in the same bed with.

posted by greggmanJune 24, 2005 at 4:46

Works well for me too... [ e ]

Let's see my wife and I have not slept in the same bed regularly for almost 5 years now. Not really by choice but a result of two kids. The kids seemed to take over the bed so off to the couch I went.

This works out on many other levels. My sleeping habits are a lot different than my wives so I can watch TV or whatever and not have to argue about it. Sex has become a lot less spontanious but with two young children it never really is.

posted by digitalturtleJune 26, 2005 at 0:03

[ e ]

Your wives?  That's very big of you!

greggman seems to be the same kind of control freak I used to be.  Not everybody who sleeps in separate beds are "putting up with each other"  Some just like the freedom the spread out, watch TV as late as they like, whatever.  Ultimately, if a couple really cares for each other, nobody should be getting tripped out over such an inconsequential things as sleeping in separate areas...unless the occasional conjugal visit is not permitted.

posted by joepetJune 28, 2005 at 0:45

[ e ]

I don't see how wanting to sleep with my wife makes me a control freak. I don't expect to control her, I just have certain needs.  If I'm with someone who natrually meets those needs then cool.  If not then depending on the issue it might be time to move on. 

For me marriage is about spending time with my best friend.  I don't have to force myself to spend time with my best friend I just do it because that's what I naturally want to do without even thinking about it. 

Other people are welcome to other arrangements. 

But, as for the thing above, I can tell you, it's not targetted at couples that are still getting along, it's targeted as couples that don't but can't bring themselves to divorce for whatever reason because that's extremely common here in Japan. Ask any 5 Japanese people if their parents still like each other and in my experience the answer will be "NO" at least 50% of the time even though they are still living together. From my stupid American perspective, life is too short to spend most of it in the same house with someone you hate so if you can't bring yourself to fix it then get out, don't build this kind of place just to try to make it bearable.  For those people that just enjoy this kind of arrangement and still like each other more power to you.

posted by greggmanJune 28, 2005 at 9:31

salut je suis un jeune malien reside en chine guangzhou j'ai 21 ans je m'air [ e ]

hello my name is sylla cheickne from mali i'm a black man i would like to go to visit in japan.i love this country to much.

posted by syllacheickneJuly 26, 2005 at 6:17

Great concept [ e ]

I have always said that the ideal situation for my husband and I would be houses next door to one another. For two people who are very independent and need time to themselves...this is a fabulous arrangement and much less drastic than divorce. You can enjoy solitude and independence and still love a person enough to make a marraige committment. I don't feel that spending 24/7 with a person makes you more in love or a better couple. That is a subjective issue. I personally find it stifling.

posted by tdhJuly 27, 2005 at 19:03

A [ e ]

When the kids moved out my grandfather converted one of the rooms into a small bedroom/study. He always went up to bed very early, and woke up early and did alot of studying so it was a nice place for him.

You dont have to dislike each other to have an extra bed. Though i have to admit i know people who cant stand each other yet sleep togther also and this is in america

posted by mikeFebruary 2, 2006 at 0:12

Love, Sex, and Sleeping together in Japan. [ e ]

This subject is one I have keen interest in, so I will post.

I will flex my Japanese "muscle" here a little... so those of you who are Japan00b's, try to bear with me. ^_^

There is an all-encompassing.... direction... for which the entire country of Japan seems affixed to follow. They are bred and trained for this life from before starting school. I have witnessed this occur personally. Think of an Ant Farm. This is Japan in a nut-shell. Each has it's rank, place, role, and are expected to perform their duties without question.

離婚 [Rikon - Divorce] in Japan is very costly, typically for the man, especially if children are involved. Not only financially, but emotionally as well, as the Woman is almost always given sole custody of the children.

So it doesnt surprise me that couples often just "tolerate" being with eachother until the child has finally cut the cord and left the nest. Too bad a lot of youth here are mama's boys and stay home for 20-30+ years! Sux to be japanese parents.

The whole idea of the "direction" i mentioned before is referred to as the わ [WA]. The Kanji, if there is any, escapes me at the moment. This single character expresses Japan's desire to achieve harmony among it's entire populace.

 

The reason so many of you see couples sleep apart is because it is their JOB to raise their children to become as productive in the workplace or as a housewife to bear children as they were when they were raised. None of the new-fangled feminism here. This is truly old-school thinking, and it's still going strong in Japan despite some headway in terms of female rights. [SOME]. So the couples are often extremely busy. Most of my salaryman friends work over 12 hours every day, 6 days a week. They do not get any overtime pay, despite Japan having clear laws against not paying overtime - the same rules Canada has I might add. [I am canadian, btw]. They rise and go off to their slave job before their children wake, and come home typically drunk and stupid trying to forget how sucky their life is far after their children have already gone to bed. This part i will elaborate in a special section later.

 

The mother is also extremely busy. Children here take an unusual amount of extra-curricular activities. It is expected of them from the beginning of Jr. Highschool. My thoughts is that they become so incredibly busy that they are in fact prepping themselves unconsiously for their soon to be life of mundane paper pushing and the highly-prized government office job. The mother must do EVERYTHING for the children. it's kinda sad really. Some of my "friends" are mothers, and they really REALLY enjoy visiting me from time to time.

So what's all this crap i just wrote? Couples with children are just too busy doing their destiny-appointed roles to think selfishly.

And what - you may think - about the new hot-and-wet new couples that have yet to spawn mini-me's??? This is a good question. All the Jgirls i've slept with [actually SLEEPING with.... not just play], have slept beside me. From what I have been told, it is simply a matter of comfort. Futons are built for 1 person, and a very small person at that! It is more difficult [and expensive =O] to find a futon that is big enough to fit 2 Japanese peeps, let alone a 190cm canadian and his diminutive waif of a wife. But it's not too bad. Lets also keep in mind that privacy is something people really prize over here... nothing like in Canada. So perhaps we can throw in that the two just want to send their midnight love-letter emails in private before sleeping, then when the time is right, visit the other bedroom for 2-20 minutes and return after such activities are completed to sleep alone. I am not sure.

Now, on to the "extra" part i promised above...

So you have your typical family in Japan. A middle aged salaryman, a busy housewife, and 1 or 2 children going to some level of school. The salaryman, typically is extremely busy with work. His life is dedicated to work, as he has been trained to do, to support his family. The wife of course has her job as well, be a good housewife to make the family strong. Again, her role designated by her parents. From what i've heard, soon after the first or second child most couples discontinue sexual intercourse. Mostly because both are too busy or too tired, or someone has lost interest [typically the guy in this case].

What to do!!! This is an epidemic of sorts here in Japan, but not everyone outside Japan with only casual knoledge of the countries true seedy, dirty underbelly of sexualness can understand.

Japan has to be one of, if not the top, in terms of it's revenue generated by pornography, videos, pictures, "hostess" girls, prostitues, and Schoolgirl Enjyo Kosai [special flowery word school aged girls use to describe themselves when they pimp themselves out so they can buy name brand stuff. IE: stone cold part time prostitue.]. Hell, there is even markets for USED panties, complete with mini pictures of the girls that wore them without washing them, which can be found in vending machines in many major cities.

How far has this impacted society? I can see on a daily basis young men, and old, and even some women, reading pornographic comic books in public, with full graphic pictures, and they do not seem to care about wether others can see them reading. It is normal here. Being Ecchi and Ero, it's just normal.

So lets herald in one specific part of this story. Enjyo Kosai. What does the salaryman do, his wife is too busy. he is too busy. So how does he satisfy his needs? Why, hire a 15-17 year old school girl of course. It is my understanding that 16 is the legal age of consent in Japan for females, tho I could be wrong... Anyways, yes, sometimes even younger I have read. These girls dont NEED ho money, they just want to buy a new keitai, that new gucci bag, or whatnot. They stroll thru the myrad of adverts on their keitai's internet and find the one that suits them best. "dinner and movie - 20,000 yen" or "dinner and sex - 45000 yen", or "will pay 50,000 yen for sex". This is typically what you will see. They meet by contacting eachother via email on their keitai [cell phones] and almost ALWAYS will meet in a town or city other than the one they live in. So here you have this cute little school girl giving it up to typically an overweight and undersized [sorry jguys, but you are pretty small] salaryman for a few minutes and then get to go shopping for the new toy! Yatta! =I.

I am not saying all salarymen do this, but the most recent study i read stated in large cities such as tokyo and oosaka over 70% of married men have or are currently cheating on their wives.

And it doesnt stop there. What about the bored housewives!! Oh for the love of god WHAT ABOUT THOSE POOR CUTE LITTLE HOUSEWIVES!!! No problem. I have that area covered [literally, ZING!]. The same report stated that 30% of married women also partake in extramarital playtime. In japanese it's called Uwaki.

So long as the family is not harmed, who is to say that this is harmful to it? Unfortunately not all secrets can remain such forever. The divorce rate is rising in Japan steadily for a reason!

 

It would be hard to summarize my rant, but suffice to say that Japan has it's own WAY of doing things. It may seem pretty fucked up, but if you learn to accept and live WITH it, not against it, you can enjoy yourself in this country. Some may even argue you can experience the "Playground of sex" that is rumored to exist here in Japan for those of us lucky enough to be tall, white and not totally a loser.

And yes, the "Playground" does indeed exist.

posted by Brad_AomoriApril 10, 2006 at 8:50

[ e ]

I'd like to read more about this. Can you post some links?

I'm curious what "reality" is. You can go to pretty much any country and find some percentage of the population in a "playground of sex". I don't get the impression any of the hundreds of Japanese friends I've made here participate in this playground in Japan. I know people who claim many of their Japanese friends do. Maybe I hang with a different kind if person? Maybe they have lots of secrets? I don't know.

For example I would say my impression walking through say Shibuya is that while the kind of girl that seems like they might be doing Enjyo Kosai exists they are not the majority. Less than 5% if that. But I'm judging on appearence, I have no idea if that's reality or not.

posted by greggmanApril 10, 2006 at 17:02

More sex chat, love the JGirls! [ e ]

Greetings Mr. Greggman!

>I'd like to read more about this. Can you post some links?

Let me see if I can dig it up.. hold on a sek...

Yah that didnt take long.. here is a link for your reading pleasure. It's rather lengthy... and i might add it is NOT the original link i based my writings on... but it appears to be sufficient.

http://www.geocities.com/lio
neverr/35myhomecountrysprob.
htm

Pretty well written too...

>I'm curious what "reality" is. You can go to pretty much any country and find some percentage of the population in a "playground of sex". I don't get the impression any of the hundreds of Japanese friends I've made here participate in this playground in Japan. 

This is the part where Japan flexes it's descretion powers. Why do you think everyone and their dog has a cell phone over here? The youts over here are more busy me-ru'ing eachother that they would rather mail than speak. I've even seen couples hand in hand, whilst the other hand is furiously mailing away to other people. Not one of them mind you, i've seen both at once doing it. It's pretty funny. And they are slightly tilted apart from eachother so as to not reveal their cell phone displays. I too have fallen prey to the evil-that-is the KETAI. I'm all about computer stuff, so it didnt take long. First day off the "boat" and i was in the docomo shop picking out my first model. As for the "sexual playground" bit, Not everyone does it of course. But keep in mind that even if they do, chances are they will NEVER admit to doing it. One of my "friends" who is married and has 2 children goes all totally baby-like on me when we are together, like she's 16 years old again and it's her first time. It's really cute. Sure you can find easy girls in every country, but from my perspective - and because I ONLY date Jgirls - Japan is one of the better [and cleaner] places to do this. I guess in this sense, Japan being the most homogenous society in the world, there is actually something positive from being such. Not a lot of dirty foreigners to make things messed up? I dont know... But when you compare Tokyo to Aomori it's like comparing a couple cute girls to an army of 10,000 kogaru running amok in a bar full of rich men.

>I know people who claim many of their Japanese friends do. Maybe I hang with a different kind if person? Maybe they have lots of secrets? I don't know.

Yeah thats easy to say. "Yeah, my friend does Enjyo Kosai". IE: I do it, but i dont want to admit it so i'll use this example to see how YOU think about it first. Secrets are the name of the game here. It can be frustrating at times, trying to get a Jgirl to speak from the inside and not skirting the issues and trying to please everyone with flowery talk is definitely an art that takes practice!

For example I would say my impression walking through say Shibuya is that while the kind of girl that seems like they might be doing Enjyo Kosai exists they are not the majority. Less than 5% if that. But I'm judging on appearence, I have no idea if that's reality or not.

If you are not Japanese, odds are you will likely NEVER encounter Enjyo Kosai. If you do a simple search in google for such, you can see many writings about it. Young girls are just too intimidated by us foreign guys.  I don't go for the whole paying-for-play deal. I've never had to pay before, and I dont plan on doing it any time soon! Free is best.

posted by greggmanApril 10, 2006 at 20:03 [ e ]

posted by Brad_AomoriApril 11, 2006 at 9:13

How to get the JGirl... [ e ]

I forgot to mention... I suppose this applies to most every country [well, except the phillipines! lol].

Japan especially, because of it's overly-polite nature and shut-in introversion mentality is a tough nut to crack if you are trying to seduce the JGirl.

From my experience, the best way is by not being a total ass. You actually have a better chance if you really ARE a nice guy. If you're just looking for an easy lay, go to a singles bar, but if you want something a little more special and longer-lasting, something that doesnt necessarily have to cost you money in the "wine and dine" deal, you have to charm her. If you are sincere and honest with your feelings and express to her WITHOUT going too quickly for the goal, it is all too easy to accomplish what you set out to do. JGirls are used to JGuys. JGuys are - for the most part - assholes. They are cold, selfish, and think they are god's gift to women. It makes me laugh ^_^! A lot are rather not so gentle in bed so i've been told too. KEEP IN MIND HOWEVER, for those of you who are Japanese, this does not account for ALL of you. Just like JGirls have a worldwide rep for being easy and sexually aggressive when the skirt hits the floor, so to does the Jguy have the rep listed above. Akin to how many people think about Chinese and Korean men [but a little more mature than the latter, so i hear]. A good smile and sensitivity will also help you in this area. Patience is also a virtue of course. A little sake or wine or beer also doesnt hurt.  If you are masterful, you can get them in bed fairly easily. Sometimes even on the first date.Learn what kind of girl she is before you try to progress the relationship past the initial chat.

Always remember, you are the shiny dazzling wonder of a foreign country that they likely can only dream about or hear about from others. You are the exotic specimin they secretly crave when they are with their japanese men. When you walk down the street you will be watched by men with envy, sometimes even hatred, but the women have something completely different on their minds. They wont say it, but be sure that most are thinking about what it's like to be with you. You are, if you are young, a peice of AAA beef to be savored.

And so, too, is the JGirl. Their low-spice diet makes them actually rather good tasting for the most part. [Koreans top the worst tasting body IMO - damn kimchi!!]. Enjoy it while you can, but be careful and respect everyone's privacy - including your own!

IMO, the number one killer is the guy who is too desperate he cant wait, and makes the fatal error of going too quickly - thus turning from Exotic AAA Beef to becoming Freaky strange foreigner to be avoided! We have a duty to all those who come after us to preserve a reputation for ourselves. I just wish the military guys in Misawa would follow these rules, maybe then we wouldnt have a generalized troublemaker stamp hovering over our heads constantly.

posted by Brad_AomoriApril 11, 2006 at 9:38

My 5 öre (its like cents okay) [ e ]

Personally... I kinda, but not alot, like the idea. Not as much as a king sized bed, nowhere near that, but it's still a good idea.

Seriously have you ever tried to sleep, but of course not being able to, next to someone when you are dripping with sweat and getting more annoyed by the second?

I have and it's not fun. Some of you might think sweat, anger and insomnia is sexy but I dont :P

My solution would be a king size bed. Then you still sleep together, but can adjust at any time.

If this was my house I'd just push the two beds together ;)

posted by schwedehicJuly 5, 2007 at 10:00