I agree [ e ]

I agree with Western Culture sucking. You don't know me but I went to a language school called Kansai Gaidai with Colin W. (Square Enix.)
Anyway, before leaving for Japan I had Japanese roommates in college so I could get used to eating Japanese food and speaking Japanese before making the big leap going over. When I was in Osaka, Japan studying, I lived with a Host family and had no problems that other Americans were complaining about.
After my year as a language student I came back to Osaka to teach English. Almost every weekend I would go to Kyoto and eat good food, look for antiques, and go to play video games at arcades. I really liked the Namco arcade in Kyoto down the main shopping road.
After a year of teaching I decided to go back to the U.S. This was in 2002. The first two weeks were horrible. My mother took me out to eat and I got sick on American beef. There must be some kind of chemicals in the food here. A lot of food made me sick. I was alright going to a seafood resturaunt but typical American food made me ill until I got used to it again. I noticed how overweight everyone was and I noticed how pushy and rude Americans are becoming. People in Osaka were rude walking around but not like in the U.S. In Osaka there were just billions of people trying to get somewhere so the rudeness was unavoidable.
Here, if you spend too much time picking something out at the grocery store someone will bang into your shopping cart and want to push you out of the way. I am lucky that Tampa has a Japanese population. Not as big as L.A. but I kind find all the food and stuff that I used to buy in Osaka at Kotobuki Japanese Market. I can even find my two favorite drinks Lemon Chu Hai and C C Lemon.
Anway, its been 5-years since I left Japan. I still find Americans rude and I have been thinking about getting back to Osaka or Kyoto.
I wrote down my 3-year experience in a 365 page book that helped to deal with readjusting to American life. I have met some cool people back home but there has to be that one rude asshole who cuts you off and flips you off in traffic that happens more often, then I would like, to cause me to think about going back.
I hope your readjusting goes better for you then it did for me.
Genki Gaijin

posted by GenkiGaijinFebruary 15, 2007 at 4:18

Re: cars getting keyed [ e ]

My new car was keyed in Tokyo two weeks after I got it; I had driven to visit my cousin in Nerima-ku, and parked in the visitor's space at his apartment block. When it came time to leave, I found both sides of the vehicle keyed, which meant I had to spend about JPY 60,000 getting the doors fixed. Maybe someone objected to seeing a new car, maybe Nerima ain't such a nice part of town, maybe my cousin's neighbours are assholes, or maybe I was just unlucky. Anyway......

I think there are probably just as many jerks over here (I'm in Osaka), but IMHO the societal pressure to conform & not cause trouble is much stronger than in many western countries. I guess there is also a much stronger sense of public 'face' , with consequent shame & guilt if you're caught doing something naughty in public.

posted by BenFebruary 15, 2007 at 9:27

Sounds like... [ e ]

...Japan has had a very good influence on you. It definitely has on me. I view life a lot differently than I did before I moved here back in 2000. I'm sure part of it is just "growing up," so to speak, but a lot of it is just gaining that much-needed perspective of what Americans look like from outside the big shelter we all lived in. It's not pretty.

posted by johntvFebruary 15, 2007 at 10:20

[ e ]

I wonder if Japanese value things (like public facilities) because many of them spent many hours cleaning their classrooms in grade school. That should certainly give you a better appreciation for how much work it is to clean something. I visit Japan about twice each year, and everytime I come back to the US, it hits me how much people trash their environment here. Next time you're at an intersection at a left-turn signal, lean out and take a look at the median strip: hundreds of cigarette butts. Or what about the people who shove empty drink cans in my bushes? Are people here that uneducated? California spends millions each year on litter collection, all because some ***holes are too lazy to use trash cans.

By the way, Gregg, the saying is "take something for granted."  

posted by albertjFebruary 15, 2007 at 10:49

[ e ]

Oh, and let's not forget the phonebooks at public phones in Japan which are in pristine condition and not even chained up. I think Japanese are much more aware of "The Golden Rule" and treat others as they would like to be treated themselves. Many Americans seem oblivious to the Japanese concept of "meiwaku kakaru."

posted by albertjFebruary 15, 2007 at 10:54

[ e ]

I definitely agree. It disgusts me how much we Americans live our lives at the expense of others. I can't believe that stupid "Borat" movie is so popular. What's so funny about wasting other people's time and embarrassing them on screen? I want no part of entertainment that primarily involves belittling others. And yet, every else seems to love it.

posted by VorteksFebruary 15, 2007 at 13:41

[ e ]

Hi Greg:

I’ve been a regular visitor to your site and even posted here a couple of times and it was because of some of the things I read here that I finally went to visit <st1:country-region>Japan</st1:country-region> last month. It was one of the cleanest, best organized places I’ve ever visited. We were in the Ginza station (Oedo Line) and were looking at the local map deciding which exit to use and this tiny, quite elderly woman (well dressed in a fir trimmed coat, hat and gloves) came up behind us and in perfect English asked if she could be of assistance. At first it didn’t register that someone could have been speaking to us but after hearing her again, it was clear that she meant us (were we that obvious?). We explained we were headed and rather than just telling us which exit to take, she insisted walking us through the station to the stairs and told us “exit here and cross the street to the right and our shop would be on the corner”. Greg, I couldn’t ever imagine someone doing this here in the states. Generally a verbal “use that exit” with a wave of a hand in the general direction would be about the best one could hope for here. This level kindness and consideration was consistent throughout our entire trip in <st1:country-region>Japan</st1:country-region> and we can only imagine that’s what you’ve come accustomed to. All we can say is “lucky you”. We think about <st1:country-region>Japan</st1:country-region> every day and the wonderful cultural differences we experienced and can tell you we look forward to returning to visit soon. Don’t be too hard on things Gregg, all cultures have good and bad points, unfortunately I think you (as well as us) are experiencing two cultures that are pretty much polar opposites.

For the sake of discussion Gregg, do you ever get the feeling our society may be “too far gone” to salvage it?

This is Sumie! [ e ]

Hi greg! how have you been doing there? I agree with what you wrote, but as someone said above, each culture has bad point and good point. First thing that I thought when I just came back to Japan from States was, "Why people are having such a unhappy face in train in Japan??" In the States, it never happen, everyone seems happy!  Maybe we want to have what we don't have.  I tend to focus on good point of States, and bad point of Japan, as I am in Japan.

Anyways, hope that I could see you in the near future!

posted by SumieFebruary 15, 2007 at 19:43

I concur 100% [ e ]

At times I really wish I could go back to Canada, because it is, afterall, my home country and I miss a lot of it, but like America, I really can't stand some of the habits people have over there.  Even though Japanese people tend to have problems with individuality, their manners and politeness more than make up for it, IMO.

posted by AndrewAFebruary 15, 2007 at 20:39

granted [ e ]

the phrase you are looking for is "take for granted".  rocks have nothing to do with it.

posted by languagenaziFebruary 17, 2007 at 11:33

Japanese Schadenfreude [ e ]

"It's fun to laugh at other's expense" exists in all cultures - and the Japanese are no different.

Perhaps it is a little more difficult to see on the surface with Japanese because they are so outwardly polite, especially to white North Americans/Europeans.

Or perhaps what appears to Westerners to be no big deal is really something altogether different to Japanese.

But Japanese do in fact laugh at others' expense. Probably more often than one might think.

posted by ichienFebruary 18, 2007 at 3:16

let's not make orange to apple comparisons please... [ e ]

In the USA laughing at others its becoming a habit something to even brag about with friends (yeah I heard both people braging about "keying" and bragging about "how they humiliated that guy" and so on).
In Japan if you show that kind of behaviour openly and loudly you would get "the-Eye" and get ostrcized too.
That's a monsterly HUGE difference...

posted by DaxFebruary 18, 2007 at 6:55

Same in French canada [ e ]

I live in Quebec (french part of Canada).

I spent 2 months and a half in Japan and My girlfriend is Japanese so I know Japanese culture a bit too. And I must agree too!

In Quebec this is the same as in the US about what you are talking about. I always talk to people here about the jihan (vending machine) in Japan as the best example to demonstrate good civil behaviour in Japan. there is no way you can imagine a jihan here in a dark corner of a small alley without it being rub!

Many years ago I read in a tourist guide that Tokyo was very safe because, in part, of some contract between the police and the yakusa. The secret contract would stipulate that the police will let the yakusa do some big business in exchange of the yakusa "helping" the police to take small criminal out of the streets. So maybe if you kick a jihan you'll end up in the sumida river with your feet in a concrete block! But maybe this is just urban legend.

Anyway every single time I have to lock my bycicle with three heavy locks, I think about how it would be great to have some japanese way of life here in Quebec: more respect and less fun at other's expense.

posted by StrobFebruary 22, 2007 at 9:47

yes west do sucks [ e ]

Hi,

I am a gaijin and have been living in japan for past 30 years. It is a heaven. In the 30years of my life in Japan I have misplaced my things like video camera, bag containing money and IDs in places like Disneyland, game parlour and in the parking etc... but always got it back.  Streets and highways are so clean that even if you want to throw something out of the car window you dont.   You bump into somebody in the train and before you could say the other person say SORRY. You ask someone the way if you are lost and he/she goes out of way to help you. Once I got lost in LA and asked for directions and the young guy gave me just opposite directions.  In NY central station I asked a guy for directions and he just plain told me f...off. What a difference.  I think not only west but whole world should learn from Japan.  I love this place.

posted by raviFebruary 25, 2007 at 4:21

[ e ]

Hi Ben

I read your grievance about keying of your new car. Ben do you know how many gaijins are staying in Nerima-ward.  you cannot be 100% some Japanese did it.  It can be that some gaijin ASSHOLE did it.  U had bad experience and it is sad but just think about good things about Japan and its people and you will forget or ignore this incidence.  Your car was keyed and it is better than being broken into and things got stolen. There are bad elements in every society and it is sad they are increasing in Tokyo and other big cities. Goodluck next time Ben

posted by raviFebruary 25, 2007 at 4:37

BTW Gregg, do you have a Japanese accent? [ e ]

I'm just wondering if the Japanese style of pronounciation has rubbed off and if you speak english with a Japanese accent?  That would be pretty cool.

Cheers,
Ben

PS Sorry to hear about your culture shock.  At least you got to live the good life for some years before having to go back.  I think 50% US 50% Japan living regimen might work.  Use the time in the US to save money for your living in Japan.  I'm hoping to work something like that out myself.  Ganbatte!

posted by anotherbenFebruary 25, 2007 at 5:37

Wow! [ e ]

You have written this very well. 

I thought petty vandalism and asshole behavior was a world-wide problem.  Your comment about vending machines being impossible to have outdoors in the U.S. couldn't be anymore true.

This is interesting and refreshing to hear.  Great post!  ^_^

I'm sorry to bother you, but could you please tell me how you transported your desktop PC to Japan.  It looks like it could cost $500 to ship it FedEx.

Thank you very much, Great Blogs!

posted by GambatteMarch 2, 2007 at 0:00

[ e ]

Hi Gambatte

wow 500bucks to ship it to Japan.  Better sell it there and buy another

one in Japan for less than 300quids. (good ones plenty available in used

market)(.

cheers

posted by meenooMarch 3, 2007 at 7:34

shipping [ e ]

I moved that topic here

posted by greggmanMarch 3, 2007 at 8:37

Yes, I Agree About WEstern Culture [ e ]

GET ME OUT OF HERE! It's true. I am in the US and I am constantly worrying about getting mugged, robbed, car broken into, I wish I could come to Japan! Know of any bars that need a good bartender?? lol. I envy you, especially beacuse of the FOOD! Japanese food is the best thing eve.... suuuushiiii.... drool.

posted by DoctressJuliaMarch 14, 2007 at 19:37

[ e ]

As far as "shipping" computers, you just take the box to the airport and check it as baggage. Travel light and you'll be able to ship it for free. My last trip I went to Costco, bought a big box of pots and pans, and brought them home with me to Japan unopened.

I've never been charged customs duties on anything.

posted by PleaseenteranameMarch 19, 2007 at 19:20

[ e ]

I think some of you guys give credit to Japan a little bit too much. As others have already pointed out, there are assholes likewise in Japan that laugh at others expense, and yes, probably more often and a lot more demeaning than you can imagine. And yeah I can't stand the grumpy faces people put up at trains here either. 

Sure it's clean and safe in Japan, that's nice and I'm not complaining. But that's the exception and not the norm.

posted by ikeMarch 25, 2007 at 20:30

Haha [ e ]

You know, I had read this before going to Japan a week ago and the whole time I could only think of the article. What I found disturbing during my trip was that I couldn't find trashcans anywhere in Tokyo... Maybe I missed something but I would walk around with a bottle in my hands for hours hoping the next vending machine had a trashcan or I was stuck carrying it around even longer. No trashcans and no trash anywhere... it really is an amazing sight.

posted by MaarekApril 2, 2007 at 19:43

crime and punishement in US vs Japan [ e ]

What is the punishment for stealing in Japan vs. US.  I know in the middle east they tend to lop off the limbs that do the stealing and the rate of theft is very low.  If we started lopping limbs off in America for stealing you could leave your wallet anywhere you wanted to without worry.  I think the deterrent is two fold.  Who wants to lose a hand?  Once you do lose one, EVERYONE knows your a f'ing thief at first glance.

posted by RyanApril 5, 2007 at 6:36

[ e ]

Umm... you are writing granite instad and granted.

posted by ALiasApril 23, 2007 at 16:21

[ e ]

And you are writing instad instead of instead.  It's a deep-seeded problem.

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~m
yl/languagelog/archives/0018
23.html

posted by EggCornApril 24, 2007 at 12:29

lots of typos [ e ]

If you haven't noticed, I make lots of typos. If I worry about it too much I'd never write anything. It takes time to write a post in the first place, more time then I have, then it takes even more time to attempt to proof read it. I say "attempt" because of course remembering what I wrote my brain will have a tendency to think it read what I wanted, not what I actually wrote.

I know the difference between granite and granted.

Especially since in 6th grade we learned about gneiss (pronounced the same as "nice" )which looks similar to granite hence the pun "it's gneiss but don't take it for granite"

Now, I wonder how many typos are in this response.

The funny thing is "don't take it for granite" works as an idiom just fine. It would mean "don't think it's set in stone" (another idiom) which is most circumstances would have a close enough meaning to "don't take it for granted".  "deep-seeded" works just as well. Something deeply seeded would be hard to un-seed or dig up so it would have about the same idiomatic meaning as "deep-seated".

posted by greggmanApril 24, 2007 at 18:21

Japan - vandalism and disrespect ison the rise. [ e ]

I've heard from a number of folks in Japan that disrespectful behavior is on the rise there, too.  Of course, in a country which values respect as much as Japan, it is still far less of a problem than in the U.S.

The U.S. version of "respect":

In the U.S. the word "respect" is screamed and spat into a video camera lens by rappers with fake gold teeth, who don't have the slightest clue what the word means, except that "Malcolm X used it once, so if I want to seem like a bad ass, I should use it, too".

According to folks in the U.S. (and I am generalizing, I know) "respect" is something that "YOU give to ME".  Respect is rarely thought of in the sense of giving it to someone else.

Japan isn't doing so hot either, lately:

All that aside, however, I was in Japan again last month.   I noticed a sharp increase in graffiti around the northern 1/2 of Tokyo (Shinagawa, Taito, etc).  I didn't go to other parts, but I must say the change is quite noticeable.

About 3 or 4 years ago, I noted that there was not *one* bit of graffiti in the area.  I mean, I was coming back to the States and telling everyone I knew how such a big city has no graffiti.  But now I'm walking the very same streets, and it is there in abundance.  Oh, it isn't as bad as many cities in the U.S., but it is everywhere.  Oddly, it is in similar "gang tag" style, as Japanese appear to be attempting to emulate hiphop "culture".  (Yes, the quote marks are intentional)

Cars keyed by Japanese, too:

As for keyed cars, I've had a few scratches here and there.  But the person who has seen it worst is my wife.  She had all kinds of obscenities keyed into her car once.  I mean it was a terrible mess.  They were keyed in Japanese.  No doubt by a Japanese friend of hers, with whom she'd recently had a (very) minor disagreement.  Happens everywhere.

It wasn't always like this in the U.S.:

My grandmother lived in Atlanta for most of her life.  Decades ago, she would routinely shop for groceries and then take all her bags to the bus stop outside the grocery store.  She would pick out all the "cold items" (milk, eggs, etc), and then leave the rest of the bags at the bus stop.  When she got home, she would send a few of her kids out to the bus stop to retrieve the rest of the bags.  Nothing was ever taken.

It wasn't always like this in Japan... it wasn't always like this in the U.S. either... so what are we really seeing? :

It isn't "Western culture" that sucks.  Its the new times.  A terrible state of decline across many cultures.  The thing you are noticing is the fact that the U.S. is ahead of Japan, in that the U.S. is declining first.  This makes it look (comparatively) as if Japan is not experiencing the problem.  But if you ask around, people in Japan are talking about "the new disrespectful and self-indulgent generation" all the time.  At first I thought "every generation complains about the prior generation", but I don't think that's entirely true.

Doesn't every generation complain about the new youth of their times?:

Do you think that the generation in Japan growing up around 1810 complained about the generation growing up around 1830?  Probably not.  There was probably continuity in the culture.  We are seeing cultures in transition.  They are becoming more pragmatic, and also more disrespectful.  Its a shame that is echoed on both sides of the Pacific.

I think it can be turned around.  I think that if we begin to show respect for people who are respectful, and if we openly show our contempt for those who are impolite and self-centered ... this thing could slowly begin to turn around, just as it slowly began to creep towards decline.

There used to be "Civics classes" in the United States.  Once those ended, things went down hill.  My mom's generation took them.  And you might note that theirs is the generation deemed "The Greatest Generation".  My sister and I didn't have it.  And we would both be thought of as rude assholes, had we grown up in the 40s and 50s.

My wife's generation also received civics lessons as part of school.  She still has the cool mementos she got form the City of Taito when she reached "adulthood" and became "officially a true citizen of Taito".  When we saw some of that stuff (with the city seal on it and everything) she told me all about the big ceremony and how much it meant to her and the others who were coming of age (20 years old or something like that).  

When she described it to me, I got teary eyed, thinking how nice it is for a city to embrace their young citizens like that, and to teach them the importance of belonging and helping their city to be a good one.

In the U.S., we express much of our "civic pride" in the form of disrespecting other cities.  In Michigan, for example, it goes something like:  "Detroit RULES!  Chicago SUCKS!!!!" or maybe a suburban rivalry "Northville is for pu$$ies!  Canton Township rocks!"

I think it can change, if society decides to change it.  Maybe some civics classes.  I'm an optimist.  An optimist who has typed way too much of a rambling response. :)

[PS: Your software rocks!]

posted by jeffbombApril 26, 2007 at 11:26

not a typo [ e ]

Writing "granite" instead of "granted" is not a typo, especially when done repeatedly.  If you had typed "grantd" instead of "granted", for instance, that would have been a typo.  Typing "granite" is just plain old illiteracy, a sign that you misheard the phrase when spoken and never saw it (or at least noticed it) in writing.

posted by languagenaziMay 8, 2007 at 20:38

[ e ]

you know what I love most about Japan?

if you stand around one spot squinting at a map and looking puzzled, some passerby will stop to ask you where you want to go. i once had a salaryman lead me and three other friends across three roads and up the fourth floor of a building to the place we had to go... i can't believe he went to all that trouble.

posted by LinDecember 28, 2007 at 0:17

[ e ]

You know what i love about Japan? How absolutely awful the pop culture is in every single way.

posted by kawaiisucksFebruary 20, 2009 at 16:35

[ e ]

Western culture sucks, period. I mean especially at modern times but even in the earlier times white people think they are superior than others. When their attitudes are like this, there's not much surprise the rudeness and "oh, look at me I'm so special, I'm better than others" consolidate into rude behaviors. I live in Canada, and we have a multicultural demographics in Vancouver. From my observation, western culture doesn't seem to teach people about being respectful to others, it's always about me, me, me. How do I look? Am I sexy and hot? Am I attractive enough? And a lot of energy is spent on these superficial shit. For some reason, they also enjoy putting people down to make themselves feel better. I think it's very sad in many ways especially for those ignoramus that don't get out to see what can be learned from other cultures. These people lack cultured humility and some collective value that gives them clear direction. They are taught and influenced to doubt authorities, to act individualistically, to challenge every values. This is not a generational issue but a cultural issue.

posted by StevenWAugust 22, 2009 at 23:29

Superficialness [ e ]

Interestingly, "How do I look" seems to be a bigger problem with Asian culture in my experience than in Western culture. Japan, Korean, HK, it's far more important that you are always dressed up, always wearing brand names, have brand name bags, an expensive watch, etc, than it is in the West. So while Asian cultures seem to value community over the individual as a positive aspect of their culture they have this negative superficial aspect as well.  I wonder which, if any cultures, have both good parts.

posted by greggmanAugust 26, 2009 at 3:13